Mon01042016

Last update07:36:08 PM

Back Forum Tatorte Pentagon Firefighters
Welcome, Guest
Username: Password: Remember me
  • Page:
  • 1

TOPIC: Firefighters

Firefighters 28 Jul 2009 18:35 #174

  • stefanlebkon
  • stefanlebkon's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Platinum Boarder
  • Posts: 762
  • Thank you received: 1
  • Karma: 2
Firefighter anomalies, Weird quotes and drip fed information
by
onesliceshort

Recently I´ve been searching for records on the by now famous quote from Pentagon 9/11 (Goldberg et al) and presented by History commons regarding the 3 fake firemen arrested on Sept. 12th.
It has brought me down some strange avenues and dug up further confusing info and quotations from various parties involved.
I´m not saying for one minute that there was a grand ´conspiracy´involving firefighters that day BUT the whole episode around the events of that day are at the very least contradictory.
The hierarchy have closed ranks and the firefighters involved have been in my view placed under gagging orders to the extent where it´s hard to know what to believe.
I´ve gathered a list of these anomalies on my way and below is just one.
The rabbit hole gets really deep on this particular trail.



living-testimony.blogspot.com/2006/...te-of-hell.html


Larry Everett
member of the elite Fairfax County, Virginia, Fire and Rescue Department
arrived on the scene in truck No. 402


QUOTE
"Everett vividly recalls entering the third floor of the massive facility and being met with a wall of fire. Temperatures exceeded 2,500 degrees -- he and his crew of 25 watched metal desks and file cabinets melt before their eyes," says White


Which part of this quote rings true??


QUOTE
Wearing firefighting gear rated for only 1,500 degrees, Everett is convinced that God protected him in the inferno. Everett and his colleagues spent nine hours in active firefighting that day.


It gets better...

QUOTE
The impact of the airliner and leaking fuel produced intense heat and a smoky blaze that penetrated three of the building's five rings.


Where was the fuel ´leaking´ from exactly if the plane was obliterated?
Weren´t we also told that the foam units had the fire under control within 7 minutes?
The majority of the smoke that day was officially stated as coming from the generator trailer deisel fire too.
Bear in mind that the ASCE report blames the effects of the Jetfuel fire more than the ´impact´for the collapse at 10:10 am.

QUOTE
He asks how Everett and his men, taking 20-minute shifts, worked effectively in temperatures nearly double the rating of their equipment?


GOOD question. Wish he had have asked how they could also be within viewing distance of those metal tables and filing cabinets he and the guys saw melting before their eyes!

QUOTE
"God created a tunnel of wind that left an opening," Everett said. That wind tunnel effectively kept cooler air flowing and enabled them to work in the intense heat


Doesn´t air FUEL the heat of a fire? And weren´t he and his 25 men on the third floor or was there a punchout hole there too?

QUOTE
The second prayer was answered by the 18-inch-deep water on the lower floor. "We never saw a body, we never saw a body part," Everett recalls. "They were there—but 18 inches of water will hide a lot."


Doing his best to explain how he and his men never saw bodies/parts because the floor was covered with water....who says the body parts would have been confined to just the floor? Sorry for the graphics but the parts would have been strewn all over the place.

QUOTE
"There were lots of miracles that day," Everett remembers. One of them was that American Airlines Flight 77, the plane that went into the Pentagon, was only half-full. On a normal day there would have been twice as many passengers.


uh huh.

.
QUOTE
"And why, of all the places it could hit, did the plane go into the building at a point that had been under construction for several years and was almost completely unoccupied?" he reflects


Yep God sure does work in mysterious ways!

Sorry guys if all this seems a bit random and a few quotes/topics raised deserve there own threads. Most of it has already I´m sure been discussed at length on other pages but I feel I have to put them on paper just to see the quagmire of lies that I´ve been sifting through to find the answer to the ´who were the 3 fake firefighters?´ question.

Here goes..

By Vinny Del Giudice
Editor, Arlington Fire Journal

arlingtonfirejournal.blogspot.com/2...pt-11-2001.html

QUOTE
The members of Arlington’s Rescue Squad 109 got within 10 feet of the jetliner’s remains while searching offices and conference rooms for survivors. They couldn’t get any further because of the fire. ``It was fed by jet fuel,’’ Arlington Battalion Chief Jim Bonzano said.


´within 10 feet of the jetliner´s remains´....what remains??

There were initial reports of firefighters arriving within 2 minutes at the scene from Reagan Airport. They had been attending to an automobile accident..They said the fire was under control in 7 minutes..
QUOTE
The fire, itself, wouldn’t die.
After the initial inferno was knocked down on Sept. 11, firefighters contended with flames and hot spots at the Pentagon, fed by jet fuel and mountains of rubble. ``It’s just stubborn, very difficult to get to and very difficult to extinguish,’’ said Plaugher, quoted by New York Newsday


A statement issued by the county government on Sept. 12 said:

QUOTE
`The Arlington County Fire Department reports that the fires at the Pentagon are controlled. The fire is not yet considered extinguished, however. Crews will remain on a fire watch for the next three days in the event that other fires do spring up.
The blaze – in the five-story behemoth, made up of five concentric rings of offices – was declared out at 3 p.m. on Sept. 13.


There you have it. It took nearly 53 hours to extinguish the fire. NOT the reported 7 minutes.
53 hours the crime scene and forensic evidence was being slowly destroyed...not to worry, I believe they had ´back-up´evidence just waiting in the sidelines.

A statement issued by the county said:

QUOTE
``Responsibility for incident and site management at the Pentagon crash site was transferred from the Arlington County Fire Department to the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) effective at 7 a.m., Friday, Sept. 21. It is anticipated that additional remains will be discovered during the course of the FBI’s investigation. Qualified mortuary personnel remain on site to process these remains.¨


The FBI WILL discover more remains?
It´s a pity we don´t have verified, catalogued details of the collection and identification of remains which the FBI to this day deny to the public under some jumped up ´security reason´
It would be interesting to see what the FBI ´found´ when left there alone.
It does NOT require an entire force whether it be FBI or any other government body to be wholly involved in an underhand trecherous plot. It simply requires a select few in what was obviously an uncontrolled
crime scene, bereft of documentation, whether written or photographic.

www.historycommons.org/context.jsp?...ckboxes&scale=0

QUOTE
At around 3:40 a.m., investigators at the Pentagon recover the two “black boxes” from Flight 77. [Washington Times, 9/14/2001] These boxes are the plane’s flight data recorder and its cockpit voice recorder. [BBC, 9/15/2001] Some news reports claim they are found by two Fairfax County firefighters, Carlton Burkhammer and Brian Moravitz, as they comb through debris near the IMPACT site. [Washington Post, 9/19/2001; Newsweek, 9/28/2001] But according to Arlington County spokesman Dick Bridges, members of the FBI’s evidence response team find them. [PBS, 9/14/2001; Washington Post, 9/14/2001] Authors Patrick Creed and Rick Newman will later clarify that Burkhammer and Moravitz find an object initially believed to be one of the black boxes, but closer inspection reveals it to be just “a charred chunk of machinery.”


BUT the two firefighters´find is reported differently here..

PILOTSFOR911TRUTH.ORG/FDR_LOCATION_091607.HTML

QUOTE
The Flight Data Recorder (FDR) was found early in the morning of September 14, 2001. Government reports indicate the FDR was found at the entrance hole of the collapsed E ring. "...the two spotted an intact seat from the plane’s cockpit with a chunk of the floor still attached. Then they saw two odd-shaped dark boxes, about 1.5 by 2 feet long....
They’d been told the plane’s “black boxes” would in fact be bright orange, but these were charred black. The boxes had handles on one end and one was torn open. They cordoned off the area and called for an FBI agent, who in turn called for someone from the National Transportation Safety Board who confirmed the find: the black boxes from American Airlines Flight 77. “We wanted to find live victims,” says Burkhammer. But this was a consolation prize. “Finding the black box gave us a little boost,” he says.


There´s quite a difference between them find ´a charred chunk of machinery and what is described above.
Note they were reported found at E Ring, the ´impact´ site.
The story gets changed to this :

QUOTE
Subsequently, FBI photographer Jennifer Hill finds the cockpit voice recorder in a stack of rubble while assisting searchers. Thirty minutes later, a National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB) expert locates the flight data recorder in the same area. [Creed and Newman, 2008, pp. 396-397 and 400-402].


Then..

QUOTE
But Allyn Kilsheimer, a structural engineer who helps coordinate the emergency response at the Pentagon, later claims he had “found the black box,” which, he says, he had “stepped on… by accident.” [GW Magazine, 3/2002; Popular Mechanics, 3/2005].


Stepped on in a pile of rubble?


QUOTE
Washington FBI agent Christopher Combs says, “Somebody almost threw [the black boxes] away because they didn’t know what they looked like.” [Disaster News Network, 10/30/2002]


Throw evidence away? Who was this ´somebody´? And who told him/her what it actually was?

PILOTSFOR911TRUTH.ORG/FDR_LOCATION_091607.HTML

QUOTE
The Flight Data Recorder (FDR) was found early in the morning of September 14, 2001. Government reports indicate the FDR was found at the entrance hole of the collapsed E ring. "...the two spotted an intact seat from the plane’s cockpit with a chunk of the floor still attached. Then they saw two odd-shaped dark boxes, about 1.5 by 2 feet long.... Pentagon officials said the recorders, also called "black boxes" were found around 3:40 a.m. under mounds of wreckage in the collapsed part of the building.." (MSNBC Sept 28). "Dick Bridges, a spokesman for Arlington County, Va...said the recorders were found 'right where the plane came into the building.'" (PBS - Sept 14).
However, The ASCE Building Performance Report and a new book published by the Dept Of Defense claims the FDR was found at the exit hole in the C-Ring. "[FDR] found in the building near the hole in the inner C Ring wall leading to A-E Drive." (Undertow quoting new DoD Book).
Why are there conflicts in the government story of where the FDR was found? Further, where are the pictures of the '"intact cockpit seat [and] floor" where the two black boxes appeared? Flight Data Recorders and Cockpit Voice Recorders are located in the tail of an aircraft. Not the cockpit. Where are the pictures of the "black boxes" laying in the rubble prior to being removed as is with every other aircraft accident investigation?


No further comment needed there..


Allyn Kilsheimer makes another incredible comment:

WWW.HISTORYCOMMONS.ORG/ENTITY.JSP?E...YN_KILSHEIMER_1

QUOTE
Allyn Kilsheimer, a structural engineer who arrives at the Pentagon at about 5:00 p.m., later recalls: “I picked up parts of the plane with the airline markings on them. I held in my hand the tail section of the plane.” [POPULAR MECHANICS, 3/2005; GOLDBERG ET AL., 2007, PP. 100]


Allyn on steroids or what? And why to this day are there no photos of this ´tail section´?

QUOTE
FBI Director Robert Mueller later says that Flight 77’s data recorder has provided altitude, speed, and other information about the flight, but the voice recorder contained “nothing useful.” [CBS NEWS, 2/23/2002] The 9/11 Commission will describe the cockpit voice recorder as being “badly burned and not recoverable.” [9/11 COMMISSION, 7/24/2004, PP. 456] According to CBS News, preliminary information shows that the cockpit voice tape “appears to be blank or erased.” [CBS NEWS, 9/16/2001]


These boxes were titanium sealed. Strengthened to withstand enormous pressures/impacts.
Various other reports said the info off of the cockpit recorder didn´t yield much info, another said the tape had been erased and this one says it was badly burned...I suppose if the engines couldn´t take it either.. rolleyes.gif

Add to this the fact that the FDR/cockpit voice recorder were found at 03:40 am yet they had been comprimised 4hours 15 minutes earlier.
That the NTSB had no serial numbers on record for both Flight 77 and 93
without which the data cannot be extracted properly.
Check out Aidan Monaghan´s blogsite on all FOIAs he has applied for with regards to these anomalies :

www.911blogger.com/blog/2074?page=1

Which brings me back to the very reason I started down this road..and I will take this oppurtunity to apologize AGAIN for the apparent randomness of this thread but I had to illustrate the web of lies and severe lack of solid follow up interviews, records and leads to untangle this mess.
I hadn´t realised just how much ranks had closed at the Pentagon at ALL levels.
There were no media interviews or LoC records which I can find.
The only person able to answer my questions regarding the following quotes are the actual authors themselves. Creed and Newman. And Alfred Goldberg and associates.

History Commons

QUOTE
"Johnny" - Arlington firefighter Bob Gray is introduced by his colleague Bobby Beer to a man wearing a hard hat. Beer introduces the man only as "Johnny," and adds, "He's our go-between with PenRen [the Pentagon Renovation Program], and he knows some of the military guys too." Although "Johnny" is not wearing any identifying badge or ID, he seems knowledgeable, appears "taut and serious, with a purposeful military stance," and even introduces Gray and Beer to a couple of friends of his who say they work for Special Forces. Johnny says if Gray and Beer need anything from the military, he can help. As a security perimeter has now been set up around the crash site, Gray assumes Johnny must be there officially. [Creed and Newman, 2008, pp. 367-368]

Sept 14
Johnny's disappearance appears to follow an error he had made after firefighters discovered two bodies inside the Pentagon's E Ring. Johnny mistakenly called the truck used to remove bodies to the temporary morgue prematurely, before FBI agents had the chance to photograph and document the remains. Gray and Beer start to wonder if Johnny in fact had no official standing, and was an impostor]



Okay, this guy Johnny could be a concerned citizen doing his bit in surreal circumstances but the fact he introduced others who he identified as Special Forces AND that he was a go between for PenRen...


QUOTE
"Chad Stamps is a firefighter with Rescue 104 of the Arlington County Fire Department. [National Fire and Rescue, 5/2002] Along with his crew, he has been fighting fires on the second floor of the Pentagon's outer E Ring. With fires burning around him, he is astonished to see another crew walk past, carrying two packs of hose line, apparently on its way to fight fires elsewhere in the Pentagon. Describing this incident, authors Patrick Creed and Rick Newman will point out: "Firefighters are trained never to go through a fire without putting it out, since it might seal off your exit. You might as well walk into a burning room and lock the door behind you. Yet there they went." Seeing the crew passing by, Stamps thinks, "This is totally disjointed." [Creed and Newman, 2008, pp. 137] The odd behavior of this crew is perhaps notable because there is at least one reported incident of fake firefighters being caught at the Pentagon following the attack there: On September 12, three people will be arrested who are not firefighters, yet who are dressed in firefighting gear (see September 12, 2001). [Goldberg et al., 2007, pp. 170]]



WHO WERE THESE PEOPLE??

Input or info would be appreciated biggrin.gif


...or I´m gonna post more..lol

z3.invisionfree.com/CIT/index.php?showtopic=657
The administrator has disabled public write access.

Aw: Firefighters 28 Jul 2009 18:40 #175

  • stefanlebkon
  • stefanlebkon's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Platinum Boarder
  • Posts: 762
  • Thank you received: 1
  • Karma: 2
Fake Fire Fighters?

from history commons


(Between 11:00 a.m. and 12:00 p.m.) September 11, 2001: Mystery Firefighters Seen Behaving Oddly inside Pentagon
Edit event

A mysterious fire crew is witnessed inside the Pentagon, behaving completely at odds with how firefighters are trained to act. [Creed and Newman, 2008, pp. 137] Chad Stamps is a firefighter with Rescue 104 of the Arlington County Fire Department. [National Fire and Rescue, 5/2002] Along with his crew, he has been fighting fires on the second floor of the Pentagon’s outer E Ring. With fires burning around him, he is astonished to see another crew walk past, carrying two packs of hose line, apparently on its way to fight fires elsewhere in the Pentagon. Describing this incident, authors Patrick Creed and Rick Newman will point out: “Firefighters are trained never to go through a fire without putting it out, since it might seal off your exit. You might as well walk into a burning room and lock the door behind you. Yet there they went.” Seeing the crew passing by, Stamps thinks, “This is totally disjointed.” [Creed and Newman, 2008, pp. 137] The odd behavior of this crew is perhaps notable because there is at least one reported incident of fake firefighters being caught at the Pentagon following the attack there: On September 12, three people will be arrested who are not firefighters, yet who are dressed in firefighting gear (see September 12, 2001). [Goldberg et al., 2007, pp. 170]

www.historycommons.org/context.jsp?item=...a1100oddfirefighters

September 12, 2001: People Disguised as Firefighters Arrested at Pentagon


The Defense Protective Service (DPS)—the law enforcement agency that guards the Pentagon—arrests three people at the Pentagon who are dressed in firefighting gear but are not firefighters. Further details of who these people are and why they are at the Pentagon are unstated. John Jester, the chief of the DPS, later reflects: “When you have a major event, certain people are like moths around a light bulb. They come to the scene as thrill seekers.” Reportedly, incident command, DPS, and FBI officials are worried by the “absence of an effective identification system to control the large number of people that [are passing] through the outer perimeter fence to support firefighting and recovery operations” at the Pentagon. [Goldberg et al., 2007, pp. 170]

www.historycommons.org/context.jsp?item=...firefightersarrested
The administrator has disabled public write access.
  • Page:
  • 1
Time to create page: 0.160 seconds